Wednesday, June 9, 2010

Don't Bring A Rock To A Gunfight

Mexico has slammed the U.S. for its 'disproportionate use of force' after a boy of 14 was shot dead by an American Border Patrol officer.

I don't know where to go with this one. It's a tragic story, to be sure. But the fault here lies not fully with the Border Agent who probably feels like shit at this moment, because I doubt he was on Mexican soil.
And getting rocks thrown at you is not a safe state to be in.

Sure, you can talk about excessive force if you want, but in the dark who knows who's throwing what, and, as a nation, we must demand that our Agents not be required to accept the kind of disrespect that comes as a matter of course. They are, after all, United States Border Agents, sworn to protect our border from trespass... and armed accordingly... and are not pinatas for Mexican amusement.
I'm not giving them a free fire zone. Some common sense needs to come into play (I'm not implying it didn't here. We don't have all the facts yet.)
This don't look good, but let's see how it plays out.

The situation at the border has been way out of hand for a very long time. I place the blame for this boy's death not on our border agents, but further up the chain of command.

I blame Mexico for allowing and encouraging it's people to disrespect United States sovereignty and it's agents.
I blame the Mexican people for carrying on in this manner.
And I blame the United States Government for allowing it to continue.

10 comments:

my name is Amanda said...

Hm. A couple things... Foreign citizens do not owe any US officials or agents or anyone any particular "respect." (Unless you want to say respect for human autonomy and human life.) Agents have the right to detain people at the border, to send them back into Mex. etc but people are not required to feel any particular emotion toward them. Even if the issue were disrespect, paying for that with one's like seems a little uneven.

Although I do not think it's okay for anyone to throw rocks at anybody.

I have some other thouhts, but like you said, we don't have all the details, so I don't want to speculate about anything if it's not an issue. The article states the boy wasn't trying to cross the border (though it may not have looked that way) and that there isn't proof he was a rock thrower. Any person, Mexican or American, should know better than to mess with border officials, or any officials, and obviously the entire incident is wrapped up in the mess of Mexican illegal immigration in this country. All in all, I do think it's excessive and wrong to shoot someone in the head for throwing rocks.

Bike Bubba said...

Pretty darned simple. Both sides admit the young punks were throwing stones, and a well thrown stone is more or less a big, slow, heavy bullet. The agent simply responded to lethal force with lethal force, and he should be exonerated within the day.

If not, those running ICE and related agencies are even more "gelded" than I'd given them credit for.

It also illustrates, ahem, how contrary to liberal ideology, illegals are not necessarily otherwise good people desperately in search of a better life. A certain proportion of them are basic thugs.

Mr. D said...

All in all, I do think it's excessive and wrong to shoot someone in the head for throwing rocks.

A rock can be a deadly projectile. It's easy to ask for restraint when you're not at the business end of one.

Foreign citizens do not owe any US officials or agents or anyone any particular "respect."

Owe? No, but the better part of valor would be to respect the fact that an agent is packing heat. Then again, as the parent of a 14-year old boy, I can attest that kids of that age have trouble making what should be basic distinctions.

RW said...

Worker migration occurs on every continent and has been so for generations. It isn't just a Mexican/US thing. It happens in Europe as well as Africa. This incident is a consequence of the human condition, I think. It's made worse because we tend to think we're the only thing in the world sometimes.

I think the posturing of the Mexican government and supporters of border walls notwithstanding, it's a tragedy no matter how you look at it.

Brian said...

Ugh. Bad situation all around. I wonder if BP agents are allowed to fire warning shots, since they can't cross the border without permission? It's not reasonable to expect them to do *nothing* if someone is assaulting them while they are doing their job, but a kill shot seems excessive, at least with the facts as presented here.

I can't blame the Mexican government for their reaction, either. You can bet if we were talking an American kid being shot by Federales there'd be just as much of a response from this side, if not more.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

Agreed, Gino.

MNIA-
any sane person should not use possibly deadly force against a guy with a gun.
The category of "guy with a gun" does have a baseline level of respect.

Yes, a rock can kill you. And this:
Preliminary reports on the incident indicated that U.S. officers on bicycle patrol 'were assaulted with rocks by an unknown number of people,' Border Patrol Special Operations Supervisor Ramiro Cordero said.

sounds like a DIY stoning attempt, not "a 14 year old boy threw a rock at him."

Add in that the Mexican police were seen crossing the border to get shell casings, and...yeah. Stinks.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

More info.

15, a known coyote, and the border patrol was trying to "detain" illegals on the Texas side.

Looking more like the story is "Mexico has 15 year old criminals that will assault you with rocks if you get in the way."

Gino said...

a question: if myself and some friends stood on one side of the fence and threw rocks at canadian agents on the other, could i expect the USA authorities to stop me?

RW said...

if myself and some friends stood on one side of the fence and threw rocks at canadian agents on the other, could i expect the USA authorities to stop me?

I'd expect a pretty hefty body check into the boards.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

Every place US/Canadian border station I've been around, they'd come and ask you your business before you got a stone-- assume you were smuggling.