Wednesday, August 18, 2010

If we don't build the mosque, won't the jihadists be mad at us?

15 comments:

RW said...

Do you think they're not already?

Mr. D said...

Yep. And if we do, they'll change the exhortation to "Allahu Akhbar Kumbaya, baybee."

RW said...

Yeah I don't think we should ever resolve the conflict by talking about it. That's too much fucking kumbaya. let;s just have endless war for the enxt two or three generations because, you know, that'll work.

(spits)

Mr. D said...

That's the problem, RW -- the fucking kumbaya never seems to work. I think you have buy kumbaya dinner first.

The problem here isn't kumbaya. It's kabuki.

Personally, I don't really care if they build the mosque, even though there seems to be no shortage of mosques in lower Manhattan already. It's only a story because there's a sense that the concerns of people aren't being heard, and not only on this issue.

All I'd say is this -- there are plenty of people talking about all this right now, but they are all talking past one another.

tully said...

1. The right to worship is only real through the act of worship. 2. The right to worship and its reality are American principles that make us great. 3. When American principles are not actualized, America pays for its weakness: the terrorists win. 4. Allowing Muslims to build a mosque near the World Trade Center says unequivocally that we stand with strength behind our principles, and not behind our petty sensitivities.

Conclusion: If we don't allow the mosque, the terrorists win.

Do I need to draw a picture for you, Glenn Beck? And why are you reading this? Shouldn't you be lecturing us on the nuances of American History?

Gino said...

this has nothing to do with the mosque anymore. and hasnt had since the moment th 'dicussion' left NY city.

i'm starting to move from 'i dont give a shit about a mosque' to 'build it just to piss wm kristal and his muslim hating followers'.

there is more than one jihad going here. dont think otherwise.

RW said...

When I look at the evolution of this story - the fact that nobody gave a shit until a marginal, conspiracy-theory blogger (says Malcom X is Obama's dad) kept this going until the NY Post picked it up and sudden;lt there we are... I can't help but think the amount of manipulation the Right allows itself to be the victim of makes their claims of robots on the Left seem pretty fucking stupid.

In the meantime our patriotic war dogs can only come up with "fight forever" - just like bin Laden on the other side. The American Taliban can also move along.

RW said...

This is the scenario.

First guy who mentions the source of the article instead of addressing the facts presented gets a free trip to the united states of kiss my ass.

Gino said...

gellar should be the first up against the wall. not just for this, but for everything else she's done and said.

she's a hater.
but her thing is all about israel. she hates anybody who doesnt share her vision of militant judaism.

士文婷文婷松 said...

It is no use crying over spilt milk.......................................................................

tully said...

(comments on using Salon as a source)

Mr. D said...

It doesn't really matter how the story started, RW. And if you want to use Salon as a source, it's fine with me. I'll even stipulate everything they say is true for the sake of argument.

The larger point here is this -- there's a sense, rightly or wrongly, that various people in the government, on both sides of the aisle, no longer give a shit what people think one way or another. That's what drives a lot of the animus I see directed at Obama, or at Bloomberg, or for that matter at Mitch McConnell. There's a growing sense that a permanent ruling class has emerged in this country and that they don't concern themselves with the wishes or concerns of the hoi polloi.

The mosque, in and of itself, isn't that important. When you look at it in the larger context of gay marriage rulings, Obamacare and the "shut up, they explained" way things have been going down lately, it explains why people are getting pissed off. It's a variant of an old American strain -- populism.

I'm personally quite skeptical of populism because it often flows from an incomplete understanding of the issues (at best) or ignorance (at worst) and you aren't wrong to point that out. You're also not wrong to point out that demagogues take advantage of populist moments. I don't much care for Glenn Beck for that reason -- he's just a 21st Century version of Father Coughlin. Still, one can recognize that reality and still have a modicum of sympathy for those who are now acting in populist ways.

Brian said...

"...populism..."

...which is why democracy is the worst form of government known to man. Except for all the others.

Everyone is a (lower case) democrat when what they want is popular. Everyone is a (lower case) republican when it isn't.

I certainly wouldn't want the way I exercise my First Amendment rights put to a vote, for I would surely lose them.

Mr. D said...

I certainly wouldn't want the way I exercise my First Amendment rights put to a vote, for I would surely lose them.

All of us would, at one point or another.

Gino said...

"Everyone is a (lower case) democrat when what they want is popular. Everyone is a (lower case) republican when it isn't. "

thats the democracy dynamic at work.