(Grammar corrected per Brian's suggestion.)
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The List
16 comments:
My only dissent is that ignoring something is not a necessary precondition to minding one's own business.
I agree. But I think we should expand that view into the entire Middle East. Once we stop being everybody's excuse or boogeyman they'll all turn on each other & we'll have peace here for the next 20 years. I know that sounds like I'm playing a stereotype of the Middle eastern Personage. But amirite?
When Iran has a few nukes, haven't they just become everybody's business? Plus, the Islamic world has only been invading their neighbors for the past 1400 years; as much as I'd like to believe that getting out would solve the problems, a sober view of history does not suggest this to be very likely.
What to do here? I can't think of anything that would help, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't think about the things we can do to help freedom minded people there.
RW: yurite.
but that would frost today's conservatives, who would sacrifice their own national interests in favor of an interventionist policy based upon biblical misinterpretations.
Maybe that's all the more reason to do so?
bubba: the Christian world has been invading its neighbors 1700 yrs.
as for freedom minded people, there or anywhere: they'll need to make their case among their own people, just like other 'free' nations have had to do before such a state can be sustained in the first place.
besides, 'freedom' means different things to different peoples and cultures.
Gino; false on all counts. If Islam is expansionary, and so are the Chinese and Indians, does that mean that you don't need to consider the risks of Islam? Of course not; it only means you need to consider India and China as well.
And no, Christianity has not been advancing by the sword for 1700 years. For starters, they were advancing by converting their conquerors from Constantine to Charlemagne, again between Charlemagne and the Crusades, and then again (except for Spain) from the Crusades until Columbus. To pretend that there is a Christian "duty of jihad" as there is in Islam is simply to deny history.
Neocons need to get the policies based on their worldview have FAILED. And miserably so. And nobody wants their crap anymore. It didn't work.
Bike Bubba is using the same failed logic that got us into that mess in the first place. "Freedom minded" people my ass. That's just us imposing a version of ourselves on them. The world doesn't have to be like us for us to be safe and it doesn't have to be democratic either. "Democracy" voted in Hamas in Palestine and that did crap for us - then we don't even recognize them... which is what happens when they democratically elect people we don't like. We turn into hypocrites.
Let them smash their heads together and knock each other out. Every place we've lifted our heavy hand from we've released factions that want to busy themselves with each other. Like say - oh - Iraq.
The alternative to Ahm-a-dim-bulbijad isn't that great - and the theocrats rule there anyhow. The last time they had a "reform" President he was only allowed to go so far. Oh wait, it was the guy who lost.
Neocons need to form their own party and take the religious right with them. Then they can go play with themselves and leave the governing of the USA and the running of our foreign policy to a little more intelligent group of people - who'd be a lot less likely to want to tell everybody what the fuck to do with their countries when it isn't our business.
I think some of us are. What's going on over there, anyway?
Gino, if Yugoslavia is your standard then I can name any number of Muslim countries that have invaded non-Muslim enclaves in recent years. Sudan, Nigeria, Indonesia (East Timor), Pakistan and Turkey in my lifetime. I don't believe that argument holds water.
As for RW's comment/ad hominem, you are entitled to your opinion, but recognize it as such. And as for neocons and the Christian Right leaving the political process? Really? Well there are some groups that I'd love to toss out of our democracy too. Where do I file the forms?
PS: I retract Nigeria. There has been strife there caused by aggressive Muslims, but they are not in control of the government.
picklesworth: nobody said for the neocons to leave the process. he said go and form your own party.
i left the GOP party for a few reasons. among them was the intervetionist leanings, and big govt programs, the neocons delivered.
'neocons', in practice, means not conservative. they have more in common with JFK/LBJ. like about 90%. and if JFK/LBJ were conservative, then what was goldwater all about?
I want the neocons to leave the process. And form their own country. So we can bomb it.
So has the grand Neocon cabal done something in the past two days to excite such love?
No, this is a long-standing desire...
No Muslims invading in several hundred years? Ever heard of the Barbary Pirates? Ottoman Empire? Sudan (Darfur has been going on for centuries--source 1926 National Geographic Magazine)? Southern Thailand (invaded from Malaysia)? Numerous places in Thailand, Bosnia, Albania, Kashmir, Vienna, India, .....sorry folks, but if you believe that Islam isn't attacking places not associated with the United States, you simply aren't reading history, or at the very least aren't paying attention.
bubba: what i'm saying is that the christians are doing it,too.
maybe, if we leave them alone, they'll be more inclined to leave us alone. hmm?
unlike a lot of Christian believers, I dont fear the spread of islam.
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